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Date: Morning, June 29, 1948Place: Kuling Mountain
Brother Suen Lu-dian: You said that God does not want man to obey His authority while being rebellious to a deputy authority. What should a person do if his parents forbid him from going to the meetings?
Watchman Nee: We have to differentiate between submission and obedience. Submission is a matter of inward motive and attitude, while obedience is a matter of outward act and move. According to God's Word, we should be absolute and unconditional in our submission, but relative and conditional in our obedience. In Acts 5:29 Peter said, "It is necessary to obey God rather than men." If someone in authority wants us to sin, we have to be submissive in attitude but we should not obey. For example, a mother may try to force her daughter to join her in a mahjong game. It is wrong for a Christian to engage in mahjong, and the daughter must not obey her mother. Yet she should still be respectful and submissive in her attitude, and she should not be rebellious or argumentative in any way. She can lower her head and softly say, "Mother, I do want to honor your word. I wish I could obey you, but I cannot follow you in this matter because I have believed in the Lord." Submission is absolute, while obedience is relative. In Acts the Jewish Sanhedrin forbade the apostles from preaching the gospel. The apostles were submissive in their attitude, but they had to be faithful to the Lord's gospel commission, and they could not heed the prohibition of the Jewish council. However, they did not disobey in a rancorous and tumultuous way; rather, they disobeyed humbly. There should not be any malicious remark or rude expression. Once a man touches authority, he becomes soft and tender. If a man is rough and hard, it proves that he has never touched God's authority. Even when a submissive man disobeys, he disobeys meekly and tenderly. If the deputy authority is wrong, one can put off the matter of obedience, but there is still the absolute need of submission. We cannot bang the table or stomp the floor. We cannot drop our countenance or raise our voice. We cannot disobey in this way. The Bible does not allow anyone to say to his parents, "Whatever you would have been profited by me is now corban. I do not have to take care of you anymore" (Mark 7:10-12). Submission in heart, attitude, and word is absolute. We have to be firm about these three points. As long as something is not sinful, it should serve as a gateway for us to learn submission and obedience. Our submission must be absolute, while our obedience depends on the nature of the matter. Many people have a problem with obedience because they have a rebellious spirit. If we take care of our heart, our attitude, and our words, we will be proper persons.
Whenever there is a conflict between deputy authority and direct authority, we can choose to submit to the deputy authority but not to obey him. Any prohibition of God's commission, such as a ban on the preaching of the gospel, should be met with submission, not obedience. Any charge to commit God's forbidden acts, such as an enjoinment to sin, should likewise be met with submission, not obedience. We cannot revile the rulers of the state or our parents. We cannot stage revolutions or insurrections. In attitude and heart we should always be submissive. The preaching of the gospel, however, is a direct injunction of the Lord; no matter how much men oppose us, we should still persevere in it. Nebuchadnezzar commanded all men to worship his image, but God's people could not obey him even though he was the king. In all other things we should submit and obey.
Dr. F. B. Meyer once spoke of a sister who came to him, asking, "My mother takes me to many social functions. I feel that they are not profitable, and I do not like to go. I often have tried to turn down my mother's invitations, but I know I should submit to her. What should I do?" Dr. Meyer said, "You should go, but you should ask the Lord to guard your heart." When a man is taught by God, he is softened. The daughter in this case should have said to her mother, "I will go, but I would prefer that you allow me not to go." If she did not stand on the ground of submission, it would be useless even if she stayed home. Inwardly there still would not be submission in her. After the sister heard Dr. Meyer's word, she accompanied her mother to the social functions, but she was different. Before there had always been a rumbling in her heart as well as on the floor, but now there was no rumbling in her heart and no noise on the floor. She experienced more blessing by going than by staying behind. Children should always be submissive in their attitude toward their parents, but their actual conduct should be determined by the circumstance, especially when the actions are of a questionable nature. When parents force their children to go to certain places, their children may go along with much stomping and trampling. They may go in a fit of anger and return in a fit of anger. Some parents may want their children to sin, and their children may choose to stay with a rebellious attitude at home. In either case — whether or not the children go with their parents — they have gained no spiritual lesson from their action.
In the case of parents stopping their children from going to meetings, we do not have a clear-cut situation. This is a borderline case. A person's attitude to his parents in such a case should be, "I wish I could go to the meeting. If you do not allow me to go, I will submit and stay, but I hope that you will allow me to go next time." If we argue with our parents for two hours and insist on going to meetings, we are not acting in a way that is becoming as a Christian. Parents may want their children to go to places that the children do not want to go. If sin is not involved in the matter, there is not a clear decision. Submission is absolute, but obedience is another matter. If the parents insist that their children should or should not go to a certain place, the children should obey. If the parents do not insist, the children can choose. In either case, the children should be submissive in attitude. If we have this kind of attitude, God will release us in His own way.
Question: At what point in a person's experience can we say that he has seen the matter of authority?
Watchman Nee: A man's experience of salvation relates to the amount of light he has received. If a man receives enough light, he will feel the need for salvation. The same can be said about the experience of authority; it depends on the amount of light a man has received. If a man receives enough light, he will touch authority. His inner being will shrivel and be brought to submission. When grass is exposed to the scorching sun, it can do nothing but wilt. Once a man touches authority in a genuine way, several things will happen.
First, those who have touched authority look for authority wherever they go. They seek out objects of submission. This is the normal response of a person who has touched authority. He no longer is the same as what he used to be, having no fear of anything or anyone. The church is a "training institute" that trains Christians in the lesson of submission. Submission cannot be found anywhere in the world, and a Christian can only learn submission in the church. Such submission is from the heart; it is not an outward performance. Once a man learns submission, he searches for authority wherever he goes.
Second, those who have touched authority are tender. Once a man touches God's authority, he is softened. Something within him wilts away. He is not able to be tough in himself any longer. He is fearful of making mistakes, of falling into disobedience. It is easy to change such a person. Tenderness is a clear sign of an encounter with authority. Those who have touched authority are quite afraid of offending authority, even if by accident.
Third, no one who has touched authority wants to be an authority. Those who have touched authority have no desire or interest in being an authority. A man who has met authority always remains under authority; he is always afraid of making mistakes. However, many people like to be God's counselors; they like to rule over others. These ones do not know anything about authority. I do not like to be anyone's counselor or to give any proposals or opinions. I do not like to rule over others, but those who have a natural inclination for these things have never touched authority. Even if we are an authority, we have to realize that there is authority above us. How do we know that our charge to those under us is acceptable to those above us? Those who like to be God's counselor love to be an authority over others. No one is qualified to be God's counselor, but many people want to be one. A genuine authority goes through much deliberation, consideration, and prayer before he proposes anything or makes any decision. He is afraid of initiating anything that goes against the will of his authority, that is, the will of those above him. Problems often arise between husbands and wives because there is no realization of authority. When husbands and wives argue, authority is not the first priority; in fact, authority is set aside. A husband often says to his wife, "I am the authority. You must submit to me." A husband who says this does not know what it means to be an authority. This is how problems arise in many instances.
Fourth, those who have touched authority are very discreet with their tongues. A man who has genuinely touched authority has a disciplined mouth. His mouth is restricted, shut up, and he is fearful of any careless speaking. One of the greatest tests of a person is his words. Those who have touched authority are sensitive to any word that is out of place, any criticism, or any word of rebellion. Those who know authority are as sensitive to authority as they are sensitive to sin. This sensitivity is like the physical sensations of the body; as soon as it is triggered, there is a reaction.
Fifth, those who have touched authority are fully aware of rebellion in others, just as a person who has had a genuine experience of salvation knows whether or not others are saved. Similarly, those who have had a genuine experience of dealing with sins know whether or not others are involved in sin. Once we touch authority, we can turn around and identify the many rebellious acts in others. We find rebellious words here and there and find offenses against authority in many people. We find that many brothers and sisters whom we used to admire or revivalists whom we once respected have a spirit of rebellion behind them. We would not dare to criticize them, but we pity them, saying, "Such a brother or sister could have been a wonderful authority. Yet he has never touched authority himself. Oh, how much we need God's mercy!" Such a consciousness instills fear in us and prayer for others. If we have never touched authority, we are lawless, and we will not be conscious of any lawlessness in others. The first manifestation of lawlessness is rebellion, which comes from Satan. Once we touch authority, we detect the lawlessness and rebellion that is running rampant everywhere. We realize that the principle of lawlessness has saturated the whole earth and even permeated the church. We can bring the brothers and sisters into the same submission one by one by first touching authority and submitting to it ourselves. I hope that after three or five years, we will all be different. Everyone has to come under authority before he or she can be useful. We hope to see the testimony of authority manifested everywhere among the brothers and sisters. This will be something unseen and unheard of anywhere on earth. If we subject our words and our spirit to those in authority, the church will have a testimony of submission and will be able to go on. If the church is submissive, many attacks from the enemy will be eliminated. Only after we have judged ourselves can we condemn the mistakes in others, and only then will our condemnation be accompanied by much supplication. If we all learn this lesson, the church will take a big step in the way of recovery. It is easier to submit to authority than to be an authority. When we touch authority, our first reaction is to seek to submit to others and not to seek for submission from others. Unless we are brought to this point, God cannot use us to be an authority.
Question: I believe that a genuine God-fearing person would not find it hard to submit to his parents or those in authority, but among the co-workers how should we choose to whom we should submit? In a case where there are contrary opinions between two different teachers, whom should one obey? How do we know whom to follow without an absolute outward standard of judgment of spiritual authority?
Watchman Nee: If a man has never touched authority, he cannot establish a proper relationship between submission and authority while abiding by the principle of submission. Those who have touched authority can immediately identify the proper relationship between submission and authority. The New Testament describes those who offend authority as animals without reason (2 Pet. 2:10-12; Jude 8-10). There is no way for an animal to know the relationship between submission and authority. If two dogs are put together, it is impossible to appoint one as the authority and ask the other to submit to the first. When they want to fight, they simply fight. They do not know authority, and they never touch authority. The same can be said of applying the principle of submission to those who have never touched authority; it simply does not work. Once a man touches authority, all problems are solved. As soon as he offends authority, he realizes that he has offended God. It is useless to point out a mistake to a man who has never seen the matter of authority. We have to lead him to the knowledge of authority before pointing out his mistake. Once we touch authority, there is a new consciousness in us. We will not need to resort to dialogues, votes, elections, and consensus. Those who know authority are no longer like animals without reason. We cannot be hasty in our work. We have to bring others slowly and gradually under the rule of authority. This means that we must experience these things first; we first must touch authority ourselves.
In the church those who have the gift of teaching should give themselves to coordination in the Body. If a person functions as a teacher independently, it is easy for him to develop a spirit of rebellion. If we take care of the matter of coordination, things will turn out well even if there are few gifts among us. If we do not take care of coordination, however, a great gift will become a source of trouble and even a tool for rebellion. Among the elders there are always some who are more senior and more respected than others. They are the ones who should take the lead. There are also apostles who are appointed by God. But even among the apostles, there are great ones and small ones, renowned ones and not so renowned ones. Even among the twelve apostles there were differences in rank; some were leaders to the others. There is an explicit injunction in the Bible to submit to elders and apostles. However, nothing is legal among us. We cannot say that we cannot find our deputy authority because God has not explicitly pointed him out to us. If we have not met or found our deputy authority, it simply means that we are, in Peter's words, animals without reason. No remark can be stronger than this one. If someone wants to offend authority, let him offend; but as for us, we choose to submit absolutely. The Lord rebukes the antagonizers. They either fall down or slide back. If they remain in the church, we can ignore them, mark them out, and refuse to communicate with them. God will eventually prevail, and the brothers and sisters will eventually take this way.
The church can fail no longer. We should never say that the church has failed and that we will wait for the next thing to happen to rectify the situation. The church must arrive at the glory and victory of Ephesians 4 and 5. We must believe this. If the church continues to fail, what will happen to it? The kingdom will not come in to rectify the church's failure. Rather, the victory of the church ushers in the kingdom. Eventually, this victory will be extended to the world and then to the entire universe. May God set us firmly on this ground so that we never fail. If the brothers and sisters are willing to take this word, we have a way to go on. If they are not willing to take this word, we still must go on. We have to turn the whole church around so that everyone touches authority. May God prepare their hearts to be good soil. When we return to our localities, we have to find the time to pray with three or five brothers and sisters and help each one of them deal with the matter of authority and settle it. If they do not settle it now, they will not have a way to go on later. If we do not settle this matter here on the mountain, we should not leave here. We have to settle this matter right here and not postpone it. Even if we say that we cannot get through, we still have to get through. We have to force ourselves to get through in this matter. We have to be bold and strong before the Lord and be very clear about this way. We all have to make it; we should not allow anyone to say that he cannot make it. If we delay the Lord's time, I am afraid we will have to wait for another twenty years. The Lord does not have that much time. The Bible is being fulfilled, and the church will arrive at the oneness of the faith. It will reach that state. Some have asked, "What if the church cannot reach that state?" We cannot ask this. We cannot let go. My purpose for bringing us here is to get through; we cannot fail. We cannot have one part which gets through and another part which fails. The church is the final work of God on earth today. We should consider ourselves to be the final work. There will be no one after us. For this reason we must succeed.
Sister Wang Shu-ging: If some schools insist on cutting the girls' hair, what should we do? Can we sue the school?
Watchman Nee: The Bible does not permit believers to sue anyone (cf. 1 Cor. 6:1-2). If others sue us, we can respond to the suit, but we cannot initiate a lawsuit. When problems arise between believers and unbelievers, the unbelievers can be the plaintiff. Believers can defend themselves, but that is all they can do. A believer cannot turn around and file a suit. It is all right for Christians to be defendants, but never plaintiffs. This applies to a Christian's personal affairs. As citizens of a state, however, we have the right to enjoy the freedom guaranteed by the constitution. Christians can enjoy the same freedom as others. If a school forces girls to cut their hair, the parents can sue the school, and we can help the parents in their fight against the schools. It is the freedom of individual citizens to keep their hair. There is no law that says that a person cannot be a citizen of the Republic of China if he or she keeps long hair. A school principal cannot say that a girl can no longer be a student if she has long hair. This is a matter of personal liberty. If someone asks me to intervene in this matter, I will. Nevertheless, we have to be proper in our attitude. We may invite those for a meal, go to the court together, and then drive them home afterward. In such matters we should be free from personal feelings. We are here to fight for the truth only. If the post office writes a letter saying that they will not deliver Bibles, we can invite the postmaster to a meal and still sue him. A Christian can fight for his right under the constitution. Yet we are fighting for the truth, not for personal conflicts.
In territories occupied by the Communists, some members of the party confiscate property and possessions and distribute them to others. If a Christian receives such distributed goods, he has no choice but to keep them. But when the situation changes, he can inform the original owners to come and retrieve their goods.
It is more serious for a school to demand its girl students to cut their hair than to cut their fingers. Cutting one's finger only involves individuals, but cutting the hair involves the truth and the Lord. If a sister is not clear about the truth and has cut her hair already, she should cover her head with a scarf. When her hair grows back, she can take the scarf off.
Question: Some time ago the church in Swatow excommunicated a co-worker. Was that right or wrong?
Watchman Nee: Concerning this matter I need to say a word to the brothers in Swatow. I have been in the work for over ten years. I have to apologize to the brothers with respect to a few things related to the excommunication of that co-worker. After that incident Swatow sent Brother Wen-kwang to Shanghai and asked us to excommunicate the same brother from the work. We were reluctant to assume the burden of others in our work, but this was wrong on our part. The real matter did not involve whether or not the brother should have been excommunicated. There was no question about the rightness or correctness of the act itself. Unfortunately, the church in Swatow was in the position of rebellion when it excommunicated him. The co-workers should have been the ones to excommunicate that co-worker from the work. It should not have been handled through the church in Swatow. When the brothers in Swatow executed the excommunication, it exposed them to a position more precarious than that of "The Lord rebuke you" in Jude. If the co-workers had handled the situation then, the issue of authority would not have been involved. I admit that I was wrong in leaving the brothers in Swatow in a quandary. I did not have the opportunity to make this matter clear before; I wish to take this opportunity today to make this clear.
The church's excommunication can only be applied to six kinds of people, as spoken of in 1 Corinthians 5. Others who are not clearly wrong in conduct, but who are wrong only in attitude or motive, should not be excommunicated, because there is no absolute standard for such things. The church can only exhort the various parties. If the parties choose to ignore the church, at the most the church can turn its head the other way and consider them as Gentiles. As for the case spoken of in Matthew 18, it involves offenses against individuals; it is an entirely different matter altogether.
Question: If a person commits an error with respect to submission to authority, can we point out his error to him?
Watchman Nee: If a person has never touched authority, it is useless to point out his error to him. For example, if you work in the Public Works Department and a few of your colleagues speak defiantly against their superior, it is useless to point out their error to them. They are unbelievers who are totally in the realm of rebellion. If you point out their error, at the most they will nod their heads; they will not change their heart. What use is it to do this? You must first help a person to see authority. Whether or not you point out the error is not that crucial. In pointing out others' error, you should be like one who is touching contamination and defilement. When such things come to you, you should recoil. You have to exercise extreme care in such things. You should not be sucked into the tide of rebellion and should not fall into the realm of rebellion. The basic problem with a rebellious person is that he has not seen authority. Suppose a man smokes. What use is it to help him merely stop smoking? He needs some basic dealings. He needs to touch authority. Miscellaneous dealings are not very effective. You have to bring a man face to face with authority. Only after you have done this can you say, "The way you just acted was wrong. Those few words amounted to rebellion." You have to learn to fear God. God is never loose with you in such matters.
Suppose a person is very lazy. He invites himself to this and that house for dinner but never takes up any job. You have to announce his name to the brothers and sisters and forbid anyone to invite him to their home. If you do this, you will stop his habitual ill. Some idle ones may criticize you, but in a nice way you can say, "Sorry, I do not have the time to listen to you." The problem today is that many people love to play politics. This makes the situation worse. There is so much gossip because so many like to hear such gossip.
We have to grow in faith and in love. We should rebuke the brothers and sisters who should be rebuked. The best way is, of course, to exhort them with love. At any rate, we should not play politics in dealing with the brothers and sisters.
Question: How should we muzzle a person who loves to speak and spread rumors?
Watchman Nee: Brother Miao made the best remark of his life when he said, "The ears are a trash can. No one throws good things like gold, silver, flour, or rice into a trash can." If anyone comes to you with gossip, you should say, "Sorry, my ears are not trash cans." They will have no choice but to take their trash elsewhere. Those who cause divisions should be marked out, and no one should have any communication with them. We should maintain our purity in our fellowship. If any word is to go out, we must first examine it and see if there is any element of rebellion or gossip in it. Much so-called fellowship among believers is actually gossip. We must quarantine all rebellions. Titus 3 says that we should refuse a factious man after a first and second admonition (v. 10). This refusal does not mean an open excommunication. It is a measure that aims at preserving the purity of fellowship. Many times measures taken among the brothers and sisters have nothing to do with love; they are a matter of dealing with infection. If a man speaks in a rebellious way, the best way to love him is to separate him from others. This is the greatest love one can give to him, because this will bring him profit and save others. Quarantine is exercised under the principle that it is an effort of recovery for the quarantined and a measure of prevention against infection for others.
Those who truly possess authority never have to defend their authority. Nine out of ten persons are prone to touch men, not God. God may or may not have appointed one to be an authority, but it is always unsightly for a man to recommend himself as the authority. In 1 Corinthians the apostles were ranked first, but in 2 Corinthians the apostles were ranked last. In the first book the apostles were the first to be mentioned; this relates to truth. In the second book Paul said they were the last because there he was speaking on his own behalf. Both books are right. The Corinthians despised the apostle, and placed him, who should have been first, in the last place. Paul said that he was indeed the last. When he was attacked, he defended himself by saying that he was less than the least; yet he was not without grace. There are always two sides to every spiritual matter. It is equally wrong for an authority to expect submission from others and for a rebellious man to refuse to submit to him. If Brother Witness comes here, the brothers have to take care that he eats well. However, Brother Witness has to exercise care that he does not eat too well. If the brothers are concerned that Brother Witness is eating too well, they are probably not real brothers. However, if Brother Witness is afraid that he is not eating well enough, that is also wrong. We are here to uphold God's authority, not our own. We must touch the matter of authority before God. If a man only touches authority in man, the care he exercises will be nothing more than a sign of a weak conscience.
I have said enough. Have we touched God's authority? Every one of us has to settle this question within himself. It is not important whether the policeman is called Chang or Hwang. As a citizen of the state we have seen that we must obey the police. If we are not subdued in this matter, we are useless. In covering the matter of authority, we cannot appoint one or two disobedient persons to go out and preach obedience. It is useless if we only touch men. If we have a craving for others to submit to us, we are still an outsider. I am not here to pass on some teachings about authority. I am not saying that we should take these teachings to others and subject them to our authority. We are for the humbling of our very person. We are concerned with whether or not we have touched authority. An authority is very tolerant of others' offenses. Christ was the greatest authority God ever appointed. Yet He experienced the greatest offense in the whole world. He was offended throughout His life. In the end He was crucified on the cross. Authority belongs to the Lord, not to us. The One who appoints authority is the Lord. If we can prostrate ourselves before God, all of our problems will go away. If we are still craving submission from others and are concerned only about upholding our own authority, we are far from seeing the reality of authority. We cannot be careless or loose in this matter. We have to be absolute. I will not let this matter slip by easily. We have to climb up a high mountain to see this matter. We have to uphold God's authority and testify to this authority. We should never consider how we can be an authority. Rather, we should learn submission and turn away from rebellion. We need to learn to drain out every drop of our rebellious blood. I hope that we will spend more time praying alone or in small groups. I hope that we will deal with this matter thoroughly. May we clearly see the principle of authority and submission as it is displayed in Christ. It is wonderful that we can learn authority and submission here! I pray that we will rise above the clouds and see everything clearly. May the Lord be gracious to us.
I have an additional word. First Corinthians 16:16 says, "You also be subject to such ones, and to everyone co-working and laboring." Who are the "such ones"? We should look back at verse 15: "Now I exhort you, brothers: You know the household of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and they have set themselves to minister to the saints." This means that anyone who has gone before us in the Lord should be an object of our submission. Concerning the house of Stephanas, the emphasis here is that they were given to minister to the saints. Although they might not have been that old, the believers should have submitted to them on account of their seniority. First Timothy 5:17 says, "Let the elders who take the lead well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in word and teaching." We should obey the elders who take the lead in the church. First Peter 5:5 says, "In like manner, younger men, be subject to elders; and all of you gird yourselves with humility toward one another, because God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble." Those who are younger should be subject to the elders, and everyone should be subject one to another.
